Episode 10-
'The Deuce'
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How two New York classics captured the essence of Times Square then – and what they tell us about it now.
No two films capture the urban grime and desperate time of New York City in the late 1960s and 1970s like John Schlesinger’s Midnight Cowboy and Martin Scorsese’s Taxi Driver. Both films set much of their action in Times Square (and specifically on “The Deuce,” the block of porno houses and grindhouses on 42nd between Seventh and Eighth Avenues), evocatively documenting that district in its heyday – or its nadir, depending on who you talk to.
In this episode, we’ll examine the history of Times Square, and its evolution from Gotham’s epicenter of sex to its soulless current iteration, as well as the making of Midnight Cowboy and Taxi Driver. And in telling those stories, we’ll look at how the “Disneyfication” of Times Square mirrors the suburbanization of New York, and ask what was lost (and gained) in the transition.
Our guests are Midnight Cowboy cinematographer Adam Holender, film critic and historian Glenn Kenny, historian and author Kim Phillips-Fein, and Taxi Driver director Martin Scorsese.
Original theatrical poster for "Midnight Cowboy" (1969).
French theatrical poster for "Midnight Cowboy" (1969).
Re-release poster for "Midnight Cowboy" (1969).
Still image from “Midnight Cowboy” (1969), directed by John Schlesinger, photographed by Adam Holender.
Still image from “Midnight Cowboy” (1969), directed by John Schlesinger, photographed by Adam Holender.
Still image from “Midnight Cowboy” (1969), directed by John Schlesinger, photographed by Adam Holender.
Still image from “Midnight Cowboy” (1969), directed by John Schlesinger, photographed by Adam Holender.
Still image from “Midnight Cowboy” (1969), directed by John Schlesinger, photographed by Adam Holender.
Still image from “Midnight Cowboy” (1969), directed by John Schlesinger, photographed by Adam Holender.
Still image from “Midnight Cowboy” (1969), directed by John Schlesinger, photographed by Adam Holender.
Still image from “Midnight Cowboy” (1969), directed by John Schlesinger, photographed by Adam Holender.
Still image from “Midnight Cowboy” (1969), directed by John Schlesinger, photographed by Adam Holender.
Still image from “Midnight Cowboy” (1969), directed by John Schlesinger, photographed by Adam Holender.
Still image from “Midnight Cowboy” (1969), directed by John Schlesinger, photographed by Adam Holender.
Still image from “Midnight Cowboy” (1969), directed by John Schlesinger, photographed by Adam Holender.
Still image from “Midnight Cowboy” (1969), directed by John Schlesinger, photographed by Adam Holender.
Still image from “Midnight Cowboy” (1969), directed by John Schlesinger, photographed by Adam Holender.
Still image from “Midnight Cowboy” (1969), directed by John Schlesinger, photographed by Adam Holender.
Still image from “Midnight Cowboy” (1969), directed by John Schlesinger, photographed by Adam Holender.
Original theatrical poster for "Taxi Driver" (1976).
Original theatrical poster for "Taxi Driver" (1976).
Re-release poster for "Taxi Driver" (1976).
Still image from “Taxi Driver” (1976), directed by Martin Scorsese, photographed by Michael Chapman.
Still image from “Taxi Driver” (1976), directed by Martin Scorsese, photographed by Michael Chapman.
Still image from “Taxi Driver” (1976), directed by Martin Scorsese, photographed by Michael Chapman.
Still image from “Taxi Driver” (1976), directed by Martin Scorsese, photographed by Michael Chapman.
Still image from “Taxi Driver” (1976), directed by Martin Scorsese, photographed by Michael Chapman.
Still image from “Taxi Driver” (1976), directed by Martin Scorsese, photographed by Michael Chapman.
Still image from “Taxi Driver” (1976), directed by Martin Scorsese, photographed by Michael Chapman.
Still image from “Taxi Driver” (1976), directed by Martin Scorsese, photographed by Michael Chapman.
Still image from “Taxi Driver” (1976), directed by Martin Scorsese, photographed by Michael Chapman.
Still image from “Taxi Driver” (1976), directed by Martin Scorsese, photographed by Michael Chapman.
Still image from “Taxi Driver” (1976), directed by Martin Scorsese, photographed by Michael Chapman.
Still image from “Taxi Driver” (1976), directed by Martin Scorsese, photographed by Michael Chapman.
Still image from “Taxi Driver” (1976), directed by Martin Scorsese, photographed by Michael Chapman.
Still image from “Taxi Driver” (1976), directed by Martin Scorsese, photographed by Michael Chapman.
Still image from “Taxi Driver” (1976), directed by Martin Scorsese, photographed by Michael Chapman.
Still image from “Taxi Driver” (1976), directed by Martin Scorsese, photographed by Michael Chapman.
Still image from “Taxi Driver” (1976), directed by Martin Scorsese, photographed by Michael Chapman.
Still image from “Taxi Driver” (1976), directed by Martin Scorsese, photographed by Michael Chapman.
Still image from “Taxi Driver” (1976), directed by Martin Scorsese, photographed by Michael Chapman.
Still image from “Taxi Driver” (1976), directed by Martin Scorsese, photographed by Michael Chapman.
Still image from “Taxi Driver” (1976), directed by Martin Scorsese, photographed by Michael Chapman.
Still image from “Taxi Driver” (1976), directed by Martin Scorsese, photographed by Michael Chapman.
Still image from “Taxi Driver” (1976), directed by Martin Scorsese, photographed by Michael Chapman.
Still image from “Taxi Driver” (1976), directed by Martin Scorsese, photographed by Michael Chapman.
Still image from “Taxi Driver” (1976), directed by Martin Scorsese, photographed by Michael Chapman.
Still image from “Taxi Driver” (1976), directed by Martin Scorsese, photographed by Michael Chapman.
Still image from “Taxi Driver” (1976), directed by Martin Scorsese, photographed by Michael Chapman.
Still image from “Taxi Driver” (1976), directed by Martin Scorsese, photographed by Michael Chapman.
Still image from “Taxi Driver” (1976), directed by Martin Scorsese, photographed by Michael Chapman.
Still image from “Taxi Driver” (1976), directed by Martin Scorsese, photographed by Michael Chapman.
Still image from “Taxi Driver” (1976), directed by Martin Scorsese, photographed by Michael Chapman.
Still image from “Taxi Driver” (1976), directed by Martin Scorsese, photographed by Michael Chapman.
Still image from “Taxi Driver” (1976), directed by Martin Scorsese, photographed by Michael Chapman.
Still image from “Taxi Driver” (1976), directed by Martin Scorsese, photographed by Michael Chapman.
Still image from “Taxi Driver” (1976), directed by Martin Scorsese, photographed by Michael Chapman.
Still image from “Taxi Driver” (1976), directed by Martin Scorsese, photographed by Michael Chapman.
Still image from “Taxi Driver” (1976), directed by Martin Scorsese, photographed by Michael Chapman.
Still image from “Taxi Driver” (1976), directed by Martin Scorsese, photographed by Michael Chapman.
Still image from “Taxi Driver” (1976), directed by Martin Scorsese, photographed by Michael Chapman.
SHOW NOTES
Audio from Taxi Driver, directed by Martin Scorsese. Currently available on Blu-ray and 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray, and available for digital rental or purchase.
For more on the movie-going scene on “The Deuce,” the must-read book is Sleazoid Express: A Mind-Twisting Tour Through the Grindhouse Cinema of Times Square by Bill Landis and Michelle Clifford.
The promo/educational film “This is New York” can be viewed here.
Most of the Times Square background is from the wonderful The Devil's Playground: A Century of Pleasure and Profit in Times Square by James Traub.
Audio from Breakfast at Tiffany’s, directed by Blake Edwards. Currently available on Blu-ray and available for digital rental or purchase.
Milton Bracker’s New York Times cover story, “Life on W. 42nd St. A Study in Decay” can be read here.
Audio from Midnight Cowboy, directed by John Schlesinger. Currently available on Blu-ray and available for digital rental or purchase.
Kim Phillips-Fein was interviewed on October 18, 2021. Phillips-Fein is a professor at New York University’s Gallatin School of Individualized Study and the history department of the College of Arts and Sciences at NYU. Her book Fear City: New York’s Fiscal Crisis and the Rise of Austerity Politics is an absolute must-read.
Adam Holender was interviewed on September 20, 2021 at the Alamo Drafthouse Brooklyn, following a screening of Midnight Cowboy. He is the cinematographer of Midnight Cowboy and many other great New York movies, including Puzzle of a Downfall Child, The Panic in Needle Park, Street Smart, Fresh, Smoke, and Blue in the Face.
The New York Times article “Cesspool of the World” can be read here.
Glenn Kenny was interviewed on September 21, 2021 at the Alamo Drafthouse Brooklyn, following a screening of Taxi Driver. is a contributor to the New York Times and RogerEbert.com. He is also the author of the excellent book “Made Men: The Story of Goodfellas,” as well as the Robert De Niro volume of the “Anatomy of an Actor” series. His essay on Taxi Driver is included in the new Columbia Classics 4K Ultra HD Collection Volume 2. You can follow him on Twitter @Glenn_Kenny.
The Paul Schrader and Robert De Niro audio clips are from Taxi Driver’s 40th anniversary panel at the Tribeca Film Festival on April 21, 2016.
Martin Scorsese was interviewed on March 6, 2020. A world-renowned producer and director, his most recent release is Netflix’s limited documentary series Pretend It’s a City, which we discussed on this bonus episode.
The audio of Abraham Beame is from a CBS news report, which you can watch here. The rest of the archival audio in this segment is from a This Week (Thames TV) report on the fiscal crisis, which you can watch here.
More info on the “Welcome to Fear City” flyer here, and on our “Starring the NYPD” episode.
Information on the launch of the “I Heart New York” campaign and the comeback via tourism from the terrific Branding New York: How a City in Crisis Was Sold to the World by Miriam Greenberg. Background on the Giuliani years and Times Square clean-up from the Rudy! An Investigative Biography of Rudolph Giuliani by Wayne Barrett and Vanishing New York: How a Great City Lost Its Soul by Jeremiah Moss.
The Greil Marcus quote is from Mystery Train, one of our favorite books.
Music:
Revolution Void - “Someone Else’s Memories”
The Joy Drops - “Not Drunk”
Crowander - “Night Surfing,” “Holly Trash,” “Sloopy”
White Hot - “NEKO”
Siddhartha Corsus - “The Fire of Your Peace”
Nctrnm - “Tethered”
Insider - “Right”
Opening Theme:
Our opening theme features sound from the following films: Taxi Driver, Midnight Cowboy, The Warriors, Death Wish, and Death Wish 3.